Manorbier.com
Community Council Meeting - Tuesday 1st April 2003
Councillors present for Public Session
Councillor Beynon, Councillor Calver only
A considerable number of members of the public were in attendance for the public session that started at 7.30 p.m. Several members of the public commented on the lack of respect being shown by councillors by their non attendance for the Public Session, especially as a delegation from the MOD Ranges that included army, royal air force and estates management personnel were to address the Community Council, Major Warburton informed the council that Landmark, a commercial partner, had taken over all non-military operations on site from 1st. April 2003. The army personnel would still be in overall control and any queries from the public or Community Council will still be under the control of the MOD. Proposed night firing had now been put back until 2005 and when questioned by a member of the public Major Warburton informed the meeting that no additional planning permission was necessary to carry out the new operation. He also informed the council that an in-house Environmental Impact Study had been carried out but later seemed to contradict this by saying it had been carried out by the Public Protection Dept of Pembrokeshire County Council in 2001. Mr Tony Wales asked if there was a need to update the Impact Study and was informed there was no need as they would be testing the same weaponry. There is to be an exercise carried out in the last two weeks in May and the first two weeks in June which would mainly be for helicopters including Apache, Merlin and Chinook. Mr Beddoes expressed his total support for the army with the statement that everything done at the camp was in defence of the realm and that flying had little affect on him. Councillor Calver pointed out to Mr Beddoes it might have little affect on him because he resided a fair distance from the camp but it did affect those who lived close by. He then asked Major Warburton if it was possible to invite members of the parish to a demonstration at the camp similar to the one he had asked for last year, which had been very successful. He said he would arrange for it to be done the same way and also there was the possibility of a helicopter being landed in the school grounds for the children of the school to see the army, which would be easier than the children travelling to the camp.
Jameston Play Area
No reply had been received from Rock Estates asking them if it was possible for them to erect the gate that they had supplied for the play area. The matter would be carried over to the next meeting when hopefully a reply will have been received.
Partially demolished Toilet Block in Manorbier Village
A letter was received from an employee of Pembrokeshire County Council Mr W B Davies, regarding the poor demolition of the toilet block in the centre of the village. He stated that the Pembrokeshire County Council Engineer had used the most expedient method of demolition given the contour of the adjoining land. In an effort to reduce cost it was decided to leave most of the material produced by the demolition on site and increase the height of the original wall for safety purposes. He would be referring the matter of illegal dumping of rubbish to the relevant authorities. Councillor Calver who had originally raised the subject of the poor effort that Pembrokeshire County Council and Pembrokeshire Coast National Park put into this project again reiterated his concern that they had totally failed the village. The letter from Mr Davies did not satisfy him and another letter should be forwarded with his concerns that there was a need to examine the project again as Pembrokeshire County Council had spent taxpayers' money on the project that had left the area unsatisfactory. He was not asking for the building to be totally demolished but the level of the old building should be taken down to a level that would allow the shrubbery to grow over as it was before the toilet block was built. The landscaping as described by Mr Davies seemed to consist of knocking the top half of the block building into the bottom half and then placing some soil on the top, which was cosidered totally unsatisfactory. This poor reinstatement of the area to its original state showed that Pembrokeshire County Council only paid lip service to the idea of maintaining a conservation area. It was proposed that he forward details to the clerk for her to write to Mr Davies outlining the council position and requirements for the matter to be dealt with satisfactorily. Councillor Calver questioned Mr Davies' remark that the height of the original wall had been increased, when it was obvious that the block wall had not been increased in height, and the landscaping to which he referred was the importation of a small amount of soil which was spread on top of some loose fill. The old ventilation pipes to the toilet block were still open and visible and all that was needed was for the toilet block to be reduced to approx. two feet below the slope of the ground.
The infill should have been compacted to form a hard base for the overlying material, which would prevent any future sinking of the infill material. The stone surround walls should be rebuilt to their original height. At present all the council has done is waste taxpayers money on a sub standard reinstatement, which can be clearly seen already with the infill material subsiding and soil filtering down through the loosely compacted material.
Tourism Growth Area
A second letter was to be sent to Pembrokeshire County Council employee Mrs Erica Fielding regarding the community councils request to receive the minutes of the Tourism Growth Area group which to date had not forwarded.
Conservation Area Public Meeting April 8th 2003
The previous council meeting had decided to call a public meeting to elect new members on to the group. It was pointed out that they had already asked those who had served in the first phase group if they would serve again and all but two had decided to serve so the election would now be for two new members only.
Poor reinstatement of Hedge bank on Pembroke Road by Welsh Water
No response had been received from Welsh Water so this was to be carried over to the next meeting.
Dangerous bend at Manor Crescent
Pembrokeshire County Council employee Mr W B Davies informed the council that there were no statistics to support the laying of an anti skid surface on this bend and it could only be used on a high braking stressed area such as a roundabout. Councillor Calver considered that to brake on a blind comer on a hill was surely very stressful and the council employee is back into the realms of the need for an accident to occur before any work is carried out. Councillor Griffiths then quoted what had been pointed out to her by Mr Tony Wales, that the Ms Essex the WAG Environment Minister had issued new guidelines that were based on perceived risk. A letter was sent to Mr Davies informing him of the new criteria for his comments.
Poor Appearance and Lack of Maintenance to Manorbier Village Bus Shelter by Pembrokeshire County Council
Councillor Griffiths said that work would be carried out to the bus shelter in the near future. Councillor Calver informed her that the work to the slates on the roof and guttering had been all ready been carried out. The lamppost had been repositioned to stop children sliding down it or using it as a method of climbing on to the roof. Councillor Morgan was concerned over the repositioned of the lamppost and wondered if he would be able to read the bus timetable after dark as he found its old position did not illuminate it sufficiently for him to read the information on the notice. Councillor Griffiths asked Councillor Calver if the graffiti had been removed to which he replied no. Council was reminded that this had been the concern of the late Roy Thomas who had stated that the culprits would be grandparents before it was removed.
Councillor Calver asked for a letter to be sent to the Bus Company and Pembrokeshire County Council regarding the new shelter in the Penuel Chapel lay-by. He was concerned that the bus shelter was in a position that a driver coming from the direction of Jameston had poor visual contact with the shelter and would have to take a sharp turn into the lay- by towards the shelter unless all buses were routed that way. Similarly unless all buses coming from Manorbier were routed to the bus bay, potential passengers would have to cross the main road. Councillor Griffiths said there was a problem with some drivers regarding this bus shelter but she did not know what it was.
New Bus Shelter at Skrinkle
Chairperson Ms Beynon was concerned that there are not enough bus shelters and that a new one was needed on the corner at the Croft Cottage position on the Skrinkle Estate.
Manorbier Castle Entrance - letter from Owen and Owen
The agents for the estate were concerned that cutting the trees near the war memorial will fall foul of the Tree Preservation Orders and they were waiting for a tree surgeon in order to cut back trees and shrubs to allow visibility to the sea from main village. Councillor Calver who had attended the meeting to discuss this issue several years ago was concerned that this should have been carried out by now.
Pembrokeshire County Council Play areas
The clerk had visited the play areas with an employee of Pembrokeshire County Council as a response to the visit by Councillor Griffiths and Thompson, which had highlighted their concerns regarding the safety and appearance of the play areas. The broken fence behind the bus shelter in the village would be replaced when the county council are able to purchase the materials. A wooden bench in one of the play areas was broken but if it were removed it would not be replaced. Councillor Calver remarked how could it be described as safe and left there if it was broken. The clerk did not seem to know. The adventure equipment in the Jameston play area was described by the Pembrokeshire County Council employee as being the "best in the county".
Village Appraisal
Councillor Calver asked the chairperson Ms Beynon how many questionnaires had been returned to which she replied approx. 125. He felt that the poor response was due to the fact that many of the questions set by Pembrokeshire County Council officers were unnecessary. Councillor Morgan said he had a dozen at home. Councillor Calver noted that Councillor Morgan had been repeating this claim for months and that surely the questionnaires should have been brought in by this time. No reason was given for this unreasonable delay.
Chairperson Ms Beyond asked Mr Cooper, Chairman of the Jameston Community Association who was in the public gallery to organise the collection from his area. Mr Cooper pointed out to Ms Beynon it would be difficult for him to carry out this request as he would be unable to determine who had already returned their questionnaires. Councillor Calver pointed out that there had been little interest in the questionnaires and those still outstanding had probably been binned by now.
Planning Permission to extend Storeroom at Penuel Chapel
Concern was raised by Councillor Meyrick, that the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park Authority had again failed to present the views of the Manorbier Community Council at their planning meeting in regard to this application. The documents he had seen showed that no comments had been received from the community council. At the last meeting County Councillor Patricia Griffiths had said she would not like to see two halls there but as had been pointed out to her we were not being asked whether there should be two halls there but if this application should be granted. The council had supported the application, which had contained off-road parking. The clerk informed the meeting it was not her fault as she had forwarded the community council's recommendation immediately after the last meeting, which would have given the National Park planning department time to record its comments. The clerk would follow this up with the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park.
Letters received from Mr Tony Wales
Mr Wales had handed in letters at the start of the meeting so Chairperson Ms Beynon had had no previous knowledge of what was in the letters. She at first intimated that the letters should not be read out but Councillor Calver pointed out that she was not in a position to withhold such information as councillors and members of the public should not be denied access to correspondence. Councillor Morgan agreed and asked how we could make a decision to not read out correspondence when we did not know what was in them. Councillor Ms Beynon reluctantly agreed to read out the letters.
The first letter from Mr Wales ( see the letter ) dealt with correspondence from Pembrokeshire County Council employee Mr Gerson Davies. He had been asked by the Chairman of the Manorbier School Governors Mrs Patricia Griffiths to respond on behalf of Pembrokeshire County Council to the letter of criticism of the governors of the school by their non-attendance at the site meeting held at Penuel Chapel on the 1st January 2003 (see letter). Mr Gerson Davies, Director of Education, had asked the Community Council that in any reply to Mr Wales to appraise himself (evaluate) when it should have been apprised (make aware) of the relevant duties of the bodies he had criticised. Mr Wales had asked Mr Davies to inform him what those duties were but Mr Davies had failed to reply. He was now asking the community council to make him aware of the respective responsibility of the community council under the safe routes to school scheme. Mr Wales felt that Councillor Griffiths who is paid £22,000 is unable to take criticism without believing it to be personal and after doing nothing as a councillor for 23 years should resign. Chairperson Ms Beynon felt that we did not have to reply. However Councillor Calver pointed out that Mr Gerson Davies, who is Director of Education under our Cabinet Member responsible for Learning for Life, had been by Councillor Patricia Griffiths over this issue therefore the Community Council had a duty to reply to Mr Wales. The council decided not to reply.
The second letter from Mr Wales ( see the letter ) was a reply to a letter that had been sent to the previous meeting from Councillor Griffiths in which she demanded that Mr Wales withdraw his wild statements regarding an employee of Pembrokeshire County Council. Mr Wales felt that Mrs Griffiths was in a confused state and could not recollect what was said and at which meeting and by whom it was said. A concerned parent had uttered the remark, which Councillor Griffiths had attributed to him, at the public session of the Manorbier Community Council on 9th February 2003. Councillor Calver said he was sure of one thing and that was the fact that Pembrokeshire County Council employees had emphasised the fact at all meetings he had attended, that the poorer the safety record the more chance there was that something might be done. It was again decided by Chairperson Ms Beynon no reply be sent to Mr Wales.
Councillor Calver read out a copy of a letter sent to Mr Ainger by the Director of Transport and Highways on the issue. The letter confirmed that his department had now received a preliminary request from the school for inclusion in a Safe Routes to school scheme. He stated that the authority had developed a Travel Plan, which is a prerequisite for a safe route to school scheme. The travel plan pack adapted for Manorbier is being prepared and will be delivered to the school on the 12th March 2003. Councillor Calver was concerned that the school had not contacted the Community Council, as they would have to be consulted on this issue. It was noted that speed monitoring was taking place and it was hoped that figures produced would allow for the introduction of a 40 mph being introduced. Sgt Miles had stated at the council meeting at which he was present that if the new figures produced, were in line with the last ones, he would be able to recommend a mandatory 40 mph speed limit. It was only the Pembrokeshire County Council figures, which had been the result of a fifty-minute exercise with a hand held gun that had stopped him recommending the introduction of a 40 mph speed limit at the time.
Councillor Griffiths, the Pembrokeshire County Cabinet member, was concerned with the bad publicity she had received, innuendoes and confusion over this issue and suggested that she contact her close colleague Councillor Brian Hall, Cabinet member responsible for Transport and the Director of Transportation, Mr. Hugh Roberts to attend a council meeting to answer questions from members and from the public regarding the whole issue of the new footpath outside the school. In addition the proposal for the construction of a footpath from Jameston to the school under the Safe Routes to school scheme should be discussed. One councillor asked if Councillor Hall would be coming in his Tardis. Councillor Meyrick queried what was meant by this and was told he should read the www.oldgrumpy.co.uk website for the latest information on the comings and goings at County Hall. The Pembrokeshire County Council, Cabinet Member, Councillor Griffiths interjected with a comment that the website was not worth looking at.
Application by Jameston Community for donation towards the appraisal for a multi purpose hall.
Mr Beddoes asked at the start of the meeting if the financial aspects of the proposal which were included in the presentation could be kept confidential and looking at Councillor Calver said he did not want them to appear on the www.manorbier.com website. Councillor Calver informed Mr Beddoes that anything presented to Manorbier Community Council was open for inspection by members of the public. He could not understand for what reason he wanted the figures kept secret as surely the association and the company which produced them already knew what the figures were and local residents should surely be made aware of the financial implications of a project they were being asked to support. Councillor Morgan suggested that all Mr Beddoes was asking for was a gentlemen's agreement not to print the figures at this stage but was concerned that the association had not asked the community council for funds before embarking on the feasibility study and not just presenting them with a fait accompli. He was also concerned about the viability of the project and the effect it would have on the other halls in the area. Mr Beddoes at this stage challenged Councillor Morgan as to if he should be declaring an interest as he was chairman of the Manorbier and District Community Association, which received financial recompense of the Manorbier Community Council to fund a similar hall which was likely to be in competition to his association's proposal. Councillor Griffiths proposed with Councillor Minchin seconding that a donation of £500 be forwarded to the association to pay for part of the cost which to date was £1,175. Councillor Calver stated he would rather have seen the association pay for the feasibility study and then if it was considered that it would be successful, a larger one-off grant be provided. He also stated that Pembrokeshire County Council were looking into the whole issue of village halls regarding their viability and support that should be provided. Councillor Morgan felt that the association should wait for the outcome from Pembrokeshire County Council.
Both Councillor Meyrick and Councillor Calver voted against the proposal but with Councillor Morgan, who had raised serious concerns regarding the viability of the project abstaining - it was carried.
Presentation by RAF in Carmarthen.
A request was received from a town in France regarding possible twinning. Councillor Beynon suggested sending it to the twinning association for possible twinning arrangements to be made. Councillor Calver thought that the idea was to twin with one town in France not every town in France.
Conservation meeting on 8th April 2003
Now that the meeting will be shorter it was suggested that a council meeting be held after the public meeting. Councillor Calver said surely the appropriate notice would have to be issued convening the meeting, also the items to be discussed should be advertised via this notice. It was decided to carry the remaining items over to the next meeting in May. He asked if the council would make sure that the item on the Newsletter be discussed first as it had been on the agenda for many months without any discussion having taken place.