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Notes of Manorbier Community Council meeting 11th November 2004 Army Firing Several members of the community were present at the meeting for this agenda item so County Councillor Calver asked for this is brought forward to enable members of the public to present their views. County Councillor Calver informed the meeting that as the County Councillor he had already been asked to comment on the scoping document and had forwarded his views about the proposed night firing to the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park who were the relevant planning authority. He informed the meeting that it was a scoping document and therefore planning permission would be required before the operation could proceed. He indicated that he felt that rightly or wrongly the Labour Government sent the army into Iraq and other combat situations. He further stated that they should be supported with the latest weaponry and that if the army had decided that it was necessary to train or test weaponry in Manorbier they should be supported in this matter. However it would be expected that noise limits would be closely monitored throughout any area affected by the operation to ensure adherence to the permitted agreed limits and that the night firing should be reduced to the absolute minimum that was required with local residents to be kept fully informed. Mr Beddoes, a Jameston resident, was also of the opinion that the army should be supported in the project. Several residents indicated their opposition to the night firing and ventilated their concerns about the effect that it would have on tourism in the area. One local resident suggested that it not only affected Manorbier but areas as far afield as Saundersfoot. The majority of those airing concerns came from the Lydstep and Windy Ridge section of the parish. Councillor Calver suggested that perhaps closer monitoring was required of noise levels in that area. Councillor Wales informed the meeting that his major concern was for the wildlife especially the Peregrine falcon and Horseshoe bat. Councillor Calver referred to the scoping document, which stated that there would be no significant effect on the Peregrine falcon as the night firing would only be replacing the day firing. The need for any extra temporary lighting that could affect the foraging and roosting of the Horseshoe bat would be kept to a minimum. Mrs Lane, a resident from Windy Ridge, stated that not enough people were aware that the army proposed to conduct night firing and suggested a leaflet drop. Councillor Calver informed Mrs Lane that he had given copies of the scoping document to several residents for them to contact the Pembrokeshire National Park with their views. If she thought that local residents were unaware of the proposal she should write a letter for inclusion in the parish newsletter to inform them of the proposals. Council Chairman becomes confused over letters he had received from Councillor Thompson. Council Chairman Wales presented a letter to the council for to the clerk to read which had been given to him at the previous community council meeting held on the 2nd November. When the clerk started to read out the letter Councillor Calver asked who it was from, as she had not mentioned the person who had sent it or its subject matter. Councillor Wales informed Councillor Calver that he had received the open handwritten letter from Councillor Ms Thompson at the start of the previous meeting and he was unaware of its content. The clerk at first informed Councillor Wales that the handwriting was very poor and she had difficulty reading the letter. She informed the council it seemed to be minutes of a confidential meeting but that it was not Councillor Thompson's handwriting and there was neither address nor signature on the letter. Councillor Wales at this stage asked the clerk for the letter back, saying he must have given her the wrong letter. Councillor Calver was concerned that the chairman was now withdrawing a letter that the chairman said he had received from Councillor Thompson on behalf of the council for discussion. He challenged the chairman saying that it should be recorded in the minutes that he had brought the letter to the council and he was now withdrawing it. Councillor Wales said he must have handed the clerk the wrong letter. Councillor Calver responded that if this letter was the wrong letter, where was the right one and that this correspondence should still be entered into the records. Councillor Wales as this stage became agitated and confused regarding the issue with no idea as to the whereabouts of the correct letter so the council had to move on. Internal Audit Geoffrey Davies Council Chairperson was required to sign off the internal accounts for the year 2003/2004. Councillor Wales was not prepared to sign off these accounts and proposed that either the councillors should visit Mr Davies or that he should be invited to a council meeting to discuss the matter. Councillor Needs felt that although Mr Davies of the Alexander Partnership had signed off the accounts he felt that they were not correct, as the amounts could not possibly tally due to the fact that invoices had not been paid. At this stage Councillor Davies asked Councillor Needs if he was a chartered accountant as he was challenging the accounts, which had been signed off by Mr Davies. Councillor Needs admitted that he was not a qualified chartered accountant. Councillor Calver felt that Councillor Needs should inform the meeting of his concerns regarding the accounts. Councillor Wales said that he had been talking to PAVS who had intimated that they had not received payment on outstanding invoices they had sent to the community council. Councillor Needs also said he had been having discussions with PAVS on the issue and had been informed that invoices sent to the community council had not been paid. Councillor Needs said that if the council had not paid all its outstanding invoices, he could not understand how Mr Davies could have made the figures entered into the audit balance. Councillor Davies was concerned that both Councillors Wales and Needs were speaking to outside bodies about internal council business without authorisation from the council. Both councillors explained to the meeting that they had been talking to PAVS about other issues when the subject had come up. Councillor Davies suggested that this was not a reason to discuss internal council business without the community council authorisation. Whilst agreeing with Councillor Davies, Councillor Calver was more concerned about the issue of declaration of interest regarding these remarks. Both Councillor Wales and Needs should declare an interest on the subject, as both were members of the Manorbier Community Association which was involved financially with both newsletter printing and PAVS. Councillor Calver pointed out that clearly both Councillor Needs and Wales did not understand the position regarding printing of the newsletter, as he was unaware of any direct association between the community council and PAVS. All work carried out by PAVS was on behalf of the Manorbier Community Association who then submitted their invoice to the community council. As no invoice had ever been received it was unusual that both Councillor Wales as ordinary member and Councillor Needs as Treasurer of the Community Association were questioning the accuracy of the audited accounts. A point which was obvious from their statements. The issue of payment for printing of certain issues of the newsletter had been raised during the last council period when ex Councillor Morgan, the previous chairman of both the community council and community association had stated that they had never received an invoice. Councillor Calver recollected that Councillor Morgan had stated that this had been due to a lack of financial organisation within PAVS and that the matter should be left lie. Pharmacies The Community Health Council had asked for the council to comment on proposed changes to the pharmacy rota services in Pembroke and Tenby. The Council decided not to reply to the request. Letter from Manorbier Community Association and failure of Association members to declare an interest when the Community Council were discussing matters relating to the Association A letter had been received from the Chairperson of the Manorbier Community Association regarding the Skrinkle Centre. Councillor Calver queried the eligibility of members and office holders of the association to take part in the discussions. Councillor Wales, Chairman of the Community Council, informed the meeting that hanging had been done away with so he was not concerned about any breach of the code of conduct. Councillor Needs who is treasurer of the association informed the meeting he had consulted Mr James, Monitoring Officer at Pembrokeshire County Council about the matter who had advised him that it was legitimate for him to speak. Councillor Calver then asked both Councillor Tuffs and Coleman what had happened to the previous decision of the council for them to form a sub committee of three councillors with Councillor Cooper and all three councillors to look into the issue and report back to the full council. Councillor Tuffs informed Councillor Calver that the meeting had taken place in Councillor Cooper's house. Councillor Calver reacted furiously to this disclosure as councillors had no right to organise a meeting in a private house and in fact what these councillors had done was in contravention of the Code. The correct procedure as far as he was aware was to publicise where the meeting was to be held, the time of the meeting and that it should have been held at a public venue. Councillor Calver then asked Chairperson Wales if he knew the meeting had taken place to which he replied he had actually taken part in the meeting. Councillor Calver questioned Councillor Wales on the wisdom of first his attendance at an illegal meeting and secondly of his direct involvement in it. The purpose of setting up the sub committee was to look into the failure of councillors, who were also members of the Manorbier Community Association failing to declare an interest when matters concerning the community association were discussed. He indicated that as Councillor Wales was one of these councillors it would be unusual for him to have direct involvement in such a meeting. As the clerk was responsible for arranging such a meeting Councillor Calver asked her if the chairman had consulted her before setting up the meeting. The clerk informed him that the first she knew of the meeting taking place was when Councillor Cooper had asked her to put an item "report of the sub committee meeting" on the agenda for a meeting of the council however, she indicated she had not received the documentation. Councillor Calver was concerned that members of the Manorbier Community Association had constantly refused to declare an interest and leave the meeting. He then read out the contents of a copy letter that the clerk had received from Huw James, Monitoring Officer, Pembrokeshire County Council about the need for councillors to declare an interest and leave the meeting when they have an interest. Both in this council and the previous council when matters regarding the association had been discussed, the chairman had refused to allow his request that it be recorded that members of the association had failed to leave the meeting and had taken part in meetings. Councillor Needs informed the meeting that he wished to read the letter for himself. As this completely contradicted the advice, Mr James had given him. Councillor Calver asked Councillor Needs for a copy of the advice he had been given but Councillor Neads admitted that the advice he had received was only verbal. On reading the letter Councillor Needs was forced to admit that he should not have been taking part in debates. Councillor Wales on hearing that Councillor Needs was declaring an interest decided that he would have to declare an interest and leave the meeting. Before leaving the meeting Councillors Wales and Neads queried who would be chairperson, suggesting Councillor Calver for the role. Councillor Calver replied that he had always felt that even though the County Councillor could have been elected on to the community council that should never be chairman of the community council and therefore would decline the chair. Councillor Davies was then unanimously elected to chair the meeting. After Councillor Needs and Wales left the meeting various points where raised regarding the Manorbier Community Association and its connection through its executive and its members with their dual roles as community councillors. Councillor Coleman voiced his concern that it was suggested that he should have been deemed to be a trustee of the Manorbier Community Association just because he had been co-opted on to the community council. Additionally several members remarked on the disgraceful state of the building with its vandalised ceiling. Councillors agreed that a complete new investigation was needed into all aspects of the centre including the legal agreements that the council had entered into with the association when members of the association had failed to declare their interests. It was decided that because of time restraints and the urgent need to look into the Community Council and Councillors' involvement with the Manorbier Community Association that these issues should be the main items on the agenda for the December meeting.