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Notes of Manorbier Community Council meeting 4th January 2005 Inland Revenue Councillor Neads indicated his belief that the council should look into the tax implications regarding the completion of a P46 by the clerk. The clerk informed the meeting that she had been following the advice given to her and the council by the previous clerk and accountants. It was agreed by the council that insufficient attention had been paid to matters relating to their employee in the past. Therefore it was decided that the accountants who had acted as the council's internal auditors would be asked to supply the council with advice on this matter. Matters Arising out of Minutes. Councillor Wales suggested matters arising out of previous meetings other than 2nd and 11th November 2004 should be ignored. Councillor Calver suggested that this would only result in the council being in further difficulties. He asked how Councillor Wales thought there would be continuity as items would be discussed but there would not necessarily be a record of their conclusion. The only reason Cllr Wales could provide as to why he believed that this proposal was a good idea was that it had been recommended as such on a recent training course he had attended with Councillor Needs. Councillor Calver pointed out that many times in the past issues had been discussed that needed clarification and he felt that this proposal would be a backward step. He then asked how this point would be dealt with, however no concrete response was forthcoming. Councillor Wales suggested that perhaps someone could raise issues discussed but not concluded by placing it on the agenda at a later date. The council decided to continue with the present system. Public Participation Session. Members of the Public were asked if they wished to raise any matters in the section, which is set-aside for this purpose at the start of the meeting. Mr Cochrane, a member of the public, informed the meeting that he did not wish to take part but would wait for the letter he had written to the council to be read out. The letter was then read, it referred to the proposed night firing on the local defence establishment range. Councillor Calver informed Mr Cochrane that at this stage it was only the "scoping document" about which the defence establishment was asking for comments. Councillor Wales then suggested to Councillor Calver that he should be declaring an interest on this item as he felt that he had an involvement with the defence establishment. Mr Cochrane from his position in the audience then complained saying that Councillor Calver should declare an interest. At no stage did the chairman, whose duty it is to restrict discussion between councillors at the meeting, take control of the meeting so it was left to County Councillor Calver to reply to Mr Cochrane. He informed Mr Cochrane that only if he had a direct business relationship with the army would he have to declare an interest. He also informed Mr Cochrane that as the elected County Councillor he had been asked to comment on the "scoping document" and would therefore have to provide a balanced view based on discussions he had had with members of the community taking into account the opposing viewpoints and could not therefore just make a comment on an individual representation that had been made to him. Mr Cochrane had said in his letter that the previous councillor had been biased because of a family involvement with the army, which had affected her views. The council had previously discussed this item so moved on. Website Comments Councillor Calver stated that that rightly or wrongly the present Labour government had sent the armed forces into countries such as Iraq with the belief that imminent danger existed as they possessed weapons of mass destruction. As a result he felt that our servicemen and women should be given the best protection possible through military training. He had commented that monitoring should be carried out in the areas most affected by the firing and that the noise levels should be kept to the agreed legal limits, times should be kept to those agreed and the local community should be kept fully informed of proposed night firing exercises. Outstanding Newsletter Payments Councillor Davies proposed that the outstanding newsletter invoices going back as far as 2001 should be written off as previously been agreed by the council. Councillor Calver seconding the proposal on the grounds that the council was now demanding payment from individuals and businesses in the parish who had advertised in the newsletter when on many occasions the newsletter had not been printed and delivered in time for them to receive any benefit out of their advertisements. The newsletter since being taken over by the Manorbier Community Association had been a catastrophe and a situation existed where one hand does not know what the other hand is doing as far as collating and collection of payments due are concerned. Councillor Neads proposed, and Councillor Wales seconded, that no matter what has happened the debts should be recovered and that Councillor Wales should collect the debts. Councillor Davies proposed that the alleged debt owed by the Castle Inn was not for the present tenant but for his father who had recently died and out of compassion for the family he proposed that this should be 'written off' a point with which Councillor Calver agreed. Also the alleged debt owed by the previous owner of the Tudor Lodge should also be written off as he had also suffered ill health was considered and agreed with. The proposal by Councillor Neads and Wales was carried only Councillors Davies and Calver voted against. Councillor Calver raised the point that no payment had been forwarded from the Manorbier Garden Centre for their full page double sided insert which had been placed in the Christmas newsletter and wondered who had authorised the insert and if a request for payment had been made. Councillor Davies proposed that an invoice for £25 be forwarded to the Garden Centre for payment. Both Councillor Neads and Councillor Wales who are trustees of the community association failed to answer questions from other councillors who were concerned over who was responsible for inserting the advert without first receiving payment that had been adopted as the council policy. Councillor Wales suggested that a Mr Don Beddoes had produced and collated the newsletter but could not confirm who had inserted the advertisement into the newsletter. Councillor Calver felt that surely someone in the Manorbier & District Community Association should be able to shed some light on this issue. Councillor Mark Meyrick proposed that the council write to Pembrokeshire County Council to inquire if they would pay for the advert, as it was part of a project concerning water conservation. Councillor Calver pointed out that Pembrokeshire County Council could not be expected to pay for an advertisement that specifically related to a particular garden centre when there are several in the parish. Financial Matters Councillor Davies declared an interest in this item and therefore left the meeting. Councillor Neads produced a sample timesheet, which Councillor Calver had requested he produce at previous meetings, for the clerk to complete so an accurate record could be produced of her time spent on council business. Councillor Calver was concerned that it would be totally unrealistic to ask the clerk to insert just the call duration of phone calls made and received by her. He suggested that as she works on a part time basis an allowance should be made for any interruption that has taken place in her daily work necessary to handle any calls and therefore suggested that a specific time be allowed for each phone call not withstanding its duration. It was agreed by the council to try the new system for a month. Councillor Davies then re-entered the meeting and produced a ten-pound note to pay for the alleged debt owed by the Castle Inn, which he handed to the chairman Councillor Wales. He informed the meeting that he had received the money from anonymous donors who were very disgusted, as was he, by the attitude of council members on this issue. Councillor Wales protested that Councillor Davies had no right to collect the money in this way as he had volunteered to collect outstanding debts owed to the council. Internal Auditor A letter was received from Alexander Partnership regarding the queries raised by Councillor Neads and Wales who had refused to sign off the accounts for the year 2003/04 at the previous meeting and after receiving the documentation from Mr Geoff Davies of the Alexander Partnership. Mr Davies indicated his concern that "certain councillors" were apparently unaware of the strict format in which the annual accounts must be submitted to the external auditors HLB Audit. He informed the council they are prepared on a receipts and payments basis only and this change took place in 2002. He praised the clerk in which she had presented the notes that accompanied the accounts, as attention was drawn to the debtor/creditor position, which the council needed to be aware of. He also hoped that his reply had explained the legal position to those who had apparently chosen to bring into question his professional competence. After the letter was read out Councillor Wales informed the meeting that he had visited the accountants with Councillor Neads because since the last meeting Mr Tew, a member of the public, had questioned the accounts. Councillor Calver inquired as to the authority which allowed Cllr Wales and Neads to visit the auditors when it had been agreed at the previous meeting that the council would write to the auditors regarding the concerns of Councillor Needs and himself. Councillor Meyrick questioned why Councillor Wales and Needs had visited the auditors as they had no mandate to visit anyone regarding council business without authorisation from the council by resolution. He drew particular attention to 11th November 2004 when Councillor Wales' proposition to visit the auditor was defeated and the clerk was instructed to write on behalf of the council. Councillor Wales informed the meeting that he would decide personally whom he should visit on the council's behalf despite any vote by the council against the action. He then provided each member with a copy of what he said was the advice from the auditor regarding problems with the accounts. Councillor Calver raised the point that if the auditor was concerned with irregularities within the accounts he would surely have advised the council when he produced the audit. It was decided to write to the auditors requesting confirmation of the concerns that Councillor Wales and Neads had raised to be relayed to the council. Councillor Meyrick stated that if an invoice was forwarded to the council for the services of the auditor without the council having authorised the visit he assumed that Councillor Neads and Wales would pay the invoice themselves. Payment to Auditors Payment to auditor was agreed. Approval of Audited Accounts Councillor Neads, who at a previous meeting when questioned of his qualifications as a accountant admitted that he was not a qualified accountant, stated he was not satisfied with the audited accounts and was not prepared to vote to sign them off. Both Councillor Griffiths and Coleman agreed with Councillor Neads and when it came to the vote all three abstained. Councillor Coleman felt he was not qualified enough to pass judgement to whether the auditors report was correct. All the other councillors voted to accept the accounts and wondered why the three councillors who had just agreed to pay the invoice had now decided to query again the final internal audit. Date of Next Meeting 7.30 pm Tuesday 13th January 2005.